Mr Subramanian Viswanathan, hailing from a South Indian Brahmin family with deep-rooted connections to Baba, generously shares his spiritual insights in this interview. As we delve into his experiences, he underlines the essence of gratitude as the pivotal element in forging a connection with the Divine. According to him, the awareness bestowed upon him by Baba stands as the ultimate miracle, a sentiment that resonates with the simplicity and profundity of his spiritual journey. In the words that follow, discover the divine collaboration and friendship that emanate from our sacred exploration together.
The Awakening Times: Thank you for joining us today. We appreciate your time and openness in sharing your experiences.
Subramanian Vishwanatan (SW): Oh, yes! It’s a blessing. I am profoundly grateful to you.
TAT: Today is a special day as we celebrate Bhagawan’s birthday. We’re grateful for the chance to dedicate this special edition of the Awakening Times to Him. It’s also a joy to connect with amazing individuals, Baba’s devotees, sharing genuine stories. Thank you for joining us, and a warm welcome!
SW: My pranaams to each and everyone of you. It’s beautiful! Let me start by just a small introduction, my random reflection, an impromptu and spontaneous sharing. Even if someone is going to talk their whole life, they cannot exhaust Bhagawan. You cannot exhaust Swami. So, I am looking forward to your questions and sharing some key highlights
TAT: In your perspective, what defining qualities distinguish an Avatar, considering the varied roles and perceptions people have of spiritual figures like Baba?
SW: It’s a fascinating journey. You understand Bhagawan in various dimensions. The connection grows in stages. One thing to know is that Bhagawan is very different from many masters. He was displaying His powers, and it was His visiting card and He made no bones about it. There were people who were fascinated by these miracles, by His healing. Also, there were people who were put off by His demonstration of powers. He was unlike Ramana Maharishi or Anandamayi or some other masters who kept a very low profile and wouldn’t demonstrate their powers unless there was a real need.They kept a very low profile. In the case of Sathya Sai, that was His visiting card. He performed them without holding back. He was doing it all the time, whether you call it lower miracles or higher miracles, it didn’t matter. So people thought He was a miracle man. People understood Him as a miracle man. Some understood Him as a great magician. Then healing comes, spiritual healing. So when spiritual healing happened, people understood Him as a powerful master. But how do you understand that He is an Avatar? He said, “I am God”, “I am an Avatar”. He declared, “I am an Avatar”. Shirdi Sai never said that. He said, “I am a fakir”, “I am a beggar”. But Sathya Sai openly said, “I am God and this is God’s abode. This Puttaparthi is the home of God.” He declared. So how does one understand that? Does power alone make someone an avatar? What makes one an Avatar?
Sinners become saints, and many advanced souls, advanced yogis were put off by this demonstration of powers. That is one inscrutable thing about Sathya Sai. Sinners, alcoholics, drug addicts, they came to Him and incredible transformation happened where they became almost saints. I know there were many people, sinners becoming saints and advanced yogis who couldn’t understand Him. So I understood that unless God chooses to reveal Himself, you can never understand Him.
To me, the biggest miracle was the understanding that He gave me. When you understand – get the right understanding, half the battle is won. The mind cannot play tricks, and you know you are stable. You know what a boon it is to have just a glimpse of Him. There is no need to have any big miracles, just having a glimpse of Him, and just being there and soaking in His presence, the vibes, the love, the peace, the bliss – That is a miracle in itself!! You don’t have to have anything; you don’t have to seek anything. The biggest gift is delivered just like that; it just flows. You know it. In His presence, you know it. So I consider that as a miracle.
TAT: Beautifully said, thank you. Could you, please, share with us the nature of your bhav, your devotion? You are widely recognized for your deep devotion, particularly towards Sathya Sai Baba. We would love to hear about the intimate connection you had with Him.
SW: Our roots are in a traditional Hindu family, and our spiritual journey initially involved connections with masters like Ramana Maharishi and Anandamayi, who radiated peace rather than displaying miraculous powers. We believed that true greatness lay in their ability to bring about transformation. Our initial journey did not include any connection with Sathya Sai. However, a seemingly accidental event occurred in our family. My mother experienced an accident involving her detachable artificial tooth while taking medication.
One fine morning, she was taking the capsules, and the detachable tooth went inside, lacerating something deep within. It was pulled out, but she was in terrible pain. Luckily, we had a doctor in our family; my sister’s husband was a well-established doctor in the railway hospital. He got her admitted there, and she was fighting for her life, enduring unbearable pain that no amount of painkillers could alleviate. My brother, desperate to find a solution, sought the help of a Baba devotee, a Sathya Sai devotee, who took him to Puttaparthi. Due to the large crowd on that festival day, there was no chance for an interview or direct contact. He prayed fervently and returned. The miracle happened—my mother was miraculously healed. The chief doctor, a known atheist, was astonished!! He acknowledged it as Baba’s miracle. Even a skeptic became a believer. This was a miracle!!
Despite this miracle, we didn’t establish a personal connection with Baba. We recognized him as a powerful master, but personal connections were not a necessity. Our spiritual journey continued, connected to various beautiful temples. One temple, Chidambaram, with Nataraja (the Dancing Shiva) as its presiding deity, held special significance. It’s considered Dakshina Kailash (the Kailash of the south) and the center of the universe. The priests there had a special liking for me and invited me on the six sacred days for bathing the deity, “Abhishek.” I experienced a divine connection, a visualization process, feeling in a different zone as the priests bathed the idol with divine ingredients. Hours passed, and I retired to my room, content.
In the middle of the night, Sathya Sai appeared in my dream. This was an unexpected occurrence given my absorbed state in the temple’s deity. Spontaneously, I offered the same divine elements to Him, and He relished them. Surprised, I asked, “Have you blessed me with your presence because of my connection to the temple deity?” He nodded, smiled, and conveyed an understanding—that the primordial force had chosen to manifest in human form as ShivaShakti Swaroopam, the blend of Shiva and Shakti. I consider this revelation the most significant blessing, a profound understanding felt in my bones and nervous system, a kind of electricity.
With that understanding, when I went for darshans to Puttaparthi or Whitefield, it was very different. Many people talk about Bhagawan’s proximity in glowing terms, but it’s a double-edged sword. When you have that proximity with all that understanding or without that kind of attunement, it can be very distracting. Volunteers can put you off. Bhagawan used to talk about compassion and love, but some volunteers were very strict, and the mind played all kinds of thoughts. You can be put off by many things, by people, by the kind of indiscipline sometimes, and so many other things. This understanding stood me in very good stead. Every time it was very different.
I will recount one more incident where He played a role in my life. I wanted to have a picture of Bhagawan.Just a picture blessed by Bhagawan as a gateway to His consciousness. We call it a gateway to His supreme consciousness. It’s easy connecting to a picture and then connecting to the supreme; much easier. I was particular about one thing. I was choosy about one picture, where Bhagawan was holding Krishna. He brought Krishna to Dwaraka. It is on a seashore; that manifested Krishna form came into His lap. I wanted that picture to be blessed on a Thursday, a very powerful and auspicious day for Lord Krishna. I made up my mind, searched for that picture, but I couldn’t find it anywhere. Only one shop, opposite to the Whitefield Ashram, where Bhagawan used to come for summer stay, had that picture. When I asked the owner of the shop for that picture, he said, “I have only one copy; I will search for it. If I could get hold of another copy, I will give it to you.” Then he rummaged through the whole place but couldn’t get it. He said, “Sorry, I have only one copy, and this is for me.” Then I told him “I will come in the evening. I will come to your shop; if you have one more copy, give it to me; otherwise, it’s okay, it’s God’s will.” That evening, I went back to the shop. He said, “I have only one copy but some guidance has come. I will have to give it to you,” and he handed it to me. Getting the picture is one thing; getting it blessed by Bhagawan is another thing. It was a Thursday, a very auspicious day, and the ashram was jam-packed. Unless you sat in the first row – getting the first row is a big lottery, the chances are slim to non-existent. People who know it, they know it. I was in the fifth or sixth row. There was one empty space in the front row. Somehow I saw that the space was empty from where I was sitting. One volunteer, a very strict volunteer, was sitting there. He said, “There is space; you can come and sit by”, but he gave a stern warning, “You should not get up.” When he saw the picture, he understood my intention. He kind of intuited my whole thing and said, “You shouldn’t get up. You shouldn’t kneel down. You should just sit. If Bhagawan comes on his own and blesses, it’s okay; otherwise, I will throw you out.” He gave this strict warning, and I said okay. I was sitting in a corner. I said okay, “If You will it, anything can happen; if You don’t, then no matter what, it cannot happen.” Bhagawan stood there, came near, stood in front of me, He blessed this picture. Certain things I consider as big miracles. This was one of them.
TAT: What are the four important aspects emphasized by Sai Baba?
SW: Oh yes! Bhagawan, you know, He used to set store by four things. He placed tremendous emphasis on these four things: Take care of one’s mother. He used to talk about four mothers: first one’s own mother and second Gau-mata, we call it cow, which is very sacred for Hindus, and that’s another pathway to Supreme Consciousness. The third one is Mother Earth; you take care of Mother Earth, plant more trees, don’t waste water, conserve things, conserve mother nature, then you are pleasing God. The fourth thing is Veda, the scriptures; you respect the Vedas, you respect the scriptures. So these four mothers. Individually, I didn’t participate vibrantly in any platforms, but I was connecting to these four things. I had my own mother who lived up to 106 years; she was healthy. Then Gau-mata, I like to feed cows. I like to plant trees, nurture trees. The fourth one – there are many temples in India, and they are languishing for support; the priests are not well-paid. Not many people are dedicating their lives to learning Vedas. It calls for a lot of sacrifice. So that needs sponsorship. I am doing my bit there. These are things very special to me. It’s not about doing; Grace gives us the network! Grace provides the opportunities. Grace also empowers you to do something. Ultimately, it’s grace. It’s not our doing. Grace is everything; the source is grace, the path is grace, the destination is grace. We got to ride on grace, nothing but grace. The only thing we need to know is to be grateful. If opportunity knocks at your door, be grateful because that is meant for you. Those precious opportunities are meant for you, and we need to maximize them. We must learn to maximize. Because an opportunity is like a tide. There is a saying -”There’s a tide in the affairs of men”. Once it comes and you miss it; you miss it. So this is one understanding He gave.
TAT: How has your family’s connection to Baba influenced your daughters, Radha and Sathya, and what special experiences have they had with Baba, particularly Radha’s dance recital in front of Bhagawan?
SW: Oh that’s also grace! I will put it down to grace. You know if you come across crossed frequency, mixed-match frequency in your own family circles, it’s kind of difficult. You can be going in one direction; the other person can be going in another direction. So unless we have a similar kind of frequency, it’s very difficult. I have been blessed with two daughters who spontaneously connected to Baba. My second daughter, Radha, even when she was just six or seven years old, had the opportunity to perform a dance recital in front of Bhagawan. That was a very special occasion. Her maiden dance recital was in front of Bhagawan and Bhagwan blessed her with a saree. My elder daughter, Sathya, is also deeply connected to Bhagawan. She is different. Sathya is more of a theoretician, the other one is more practical. She connects more through her visualization, through her thought process and through her reflections. And she is well connected! Before her marriage, she asked me to hand over a letter to Bhagawan, because she wanted Bhagawan’s blessings. She drew a beautiful picture; the image was like Ganesh.Bhagawan looked at that letter, He looked at the picture and smiled. You know, even Him accepting a letter is not easy. Unless He wills it, you cannot reach Him the letter. He looked at the letter, He smiled, and surely she is blessed with a life partner who understands. These are things that you know are gifts from God. That bonding happens naturally. When you have that kind of bonding, it facilitates your journey. The journey becomes that much easier.
People talk about so many things. Bhagawan has said one thing that resonates. I connect to this message of God, “When you need me, you deserve me”. He didn’t say, you hold on to some transcendental yogic technique, He didn’t say you melt in love, He didn’t say you do so much charity then you will deserve me. He said you have to have a need for God. You can have a need for God through the brightness of the day and darkness of the night. It doesn’t have to be through struggles or battles or challenges. It can even be emptiness or just a need for permanence, need for eternity, and total disregard, disinclination for temporary things or illusions. So when you have a need for permanence, when you have a need for eternity, when you have a need for the source, the pathway, and the destination, you deserve Him. It’s as simple as that!
TAT: I have a question connected to this, what is your feeling on the value of asking? For instance, you shared a story about how your family visited Baba with an intention of getting a blessing for your mother. Your daughter visited Baba with an intention of getting the right partner for her. So is there value in going to Baba and asking?
SW: Absolutely! But Bhagawan always makes it very clear, don’t juggle with too many balls. One thing at a time. If you go with too many things you do not know what to prioritize. One thing at a time, one stroke at a time. Don’t juggle with too many things. If you go for this or that, you do not know what you really want, and you do not know what you are really seeking. One thing – doesn’t matter whether it’s a temporal thing or a permanent thing or an eternal thing. We also need to know, when you are on the spiritual path, when you are a spiritualist, battles are inevitable. Some challenges are inevitable. The challenges are not for everyone but for a spiritualist that is what makes him/her stronger. If he/she weathers the storm and is able to ride the storm, then he/she doesn’t get merged into the light, he/she becomes a beacon of light. You become a part of the army of light. You can radiate peace; you can be a roadmap for many people. Many people think “why is this a challenge for me ? Why has God given me this?”.But you need that understanding… that understanding is not easy, and it’s not easy to practice. Once you have the understanding “Okay! He has given me this, I will use it as an opportunity. I will use it as an opportunity” , you weather the storm because that won’t touch you. That will come and go, it’s just a passing cloud, no matter how dark it is, it’s a passing cloud, it won’t touch you, it will go. You will find the answer; the answer will come to you. You will get over it. The important thing is, the lesson that you draw from that will make you stronger. You will become a beacon of light and you can radiate that. You can guide people, you can show the pathway, you can tell, “I also went through this, this is another challenge, but you will come through”. You will be immensely grateful for the experience. Once you climb the mountain, having reached the mountain, you will be absorbed in light. There will be no looking back.
Asking is perfectly okay but we need to know what to ask. We really need to know what to ask. We really need to know what is the priority. Why waste a pound when you can do with a penny? Having come so far in the journey of life, there are many things we can solve by our own end. God has given us free will, and we can do it, we can solve it. So only when it defies our understanding, or defies one’s kind of solution, approach God and grace will start operating. The presence of God just dissolves all problems!
TAT: What do you consider as the most important teaching of Baba, especially in terms of the simplicity and individuality He emphasized in spiritual practices?
SW: It’s very difficult to say. Bhagawan’s super specialty is baby food. He did not complicate anything. He emphasized so much on grasping the basics—the basic discipline, basic human values, basic give and take. Values such as the love for your nation, the love for your family, your extended family. People talk about constant integrated awareness and all that, but when shooting for the stars, you need to be well-grounded first. The thing that I like most about Bhagawan is that He didn’t insist on any specific process for anybody. It’s a highly individualistic journey. He valued individuality. He said, if your orientation is for seva, do it. If your orientation is for devotion, do it. If your orientation is for jñāna (wisdom), do it. It’s highly individualistic. He wasn’t set on any one way. Bhajans were there. Bhajans for everyone. Because bhajans are a kind of bonding and so easy to connect to consciousness. So much like our contemporary master, Mohanji. Because I understood one avatar, I also understood our contemporary Supreme Master Mohanji. It is very difficult otherwise!
TAT: Can you touch upon the unity of Masters?
SW: The unity, I would say, is in consciousness. The operating field is different. Bhagawan didn’t go out of Bharat many times; he just went out once or twice. The fragrance is different; the flavor is different. But the unity of consciousness. The three things you can feel can be delivered only by a few masters. One is peace/shanti, the other one is bliss/ananda, the third one is love/prema. You can feel these three things. This is the highest gift from the supreme masters. The peace, the bliss, the love, indescribable things. These three things, supreme gifts from the supreme masters. You have everything, what more to ask for!
TAT: Can you share your thoughts on Sai Baba’s practice of asking people where they are from and teasing them when they answer with a location, emphasizing that the correct answer is that we all come from God?
SW: This is a beautiful message, right! This is not a question, this is a message. We all come from God. He talks about universal brotherhood. Everybody has come from God; we need to know this, the world needs to know this. The world now is so much of a divide, so much of conflict, so much of tension. But once we know that we all come from the same source, no matter what the path is, the destination is the same! What difference remains then? This is the message: He wants to drill it home. He said you have come from the source, don’t go by the externals. The externals are all temporary. The externals, no matter what you call it, are all temporary. You are part of me; you have come from the Source; you are the source. It’s not as if I am the source and you are the seeker. You are as much the source as I am. You are as much the destination as I am. This is the Atmic principle. This is not like I am a master; you are a seeker. I am a God; you are a devotee. At one point, yes the dualistic devotion is there. But He wants to take you there. You are the source. We have come from the source; we are part of the source. Then where the journey culminates, you know it. You are not the body; you are not the mind; you are not the merit; you are not the demerit. You are Shivoham. So that is the message. He wants us to understand that message. Without saying it in so many words He says, “Where are you from?”. And nobody had the understanding to say, “I am you! You are in me; I am in you. I am part of you, and you are part of me.” He wanted to create that awareness. He was just sowing the seed; the seed has to grow. By just asking this question, He was planting a seed, and the seed will start growing. Some very subtle transfer. When you are in communion with masters, they will be asking all kinds of questions, random questions. If you just look at it at face value, you will not know what it is. But they have deeper significance. They will be planting a seed, and that seed will grow. That seed will never wither away. When they are transferring something, when they are planting that seed, that seed will become a banyan tree. It will grow into a tree. It is bound to grow, no doubt about it. That is the thing. It’s not a question-answer session. It is a transfer. All the time, there are subtle transfers. Their presence alone makes a difference. People do not understand; we connect to them with our senses. When we connect through our consciousness, awareness is different. That is all we need to ask for. What we are asking for is awareness! After you have it, you have everything!
TAT: How would you suggest remembering Baba, especially on His birthday?
SW: This is also highly individualistic. People can remember Him in many ways. They can celebrate it in various ways. But if you ask me frankly what’s the best way to connect to Him, the easiest way to connect to Him, be grateful, just be grateful. You have come this far in your journey. You have understood a contemporary master in dimensions. That understanding is the greatest gift that you can ask for. And once you have it, be grateful. Gratitude alone is enough. People say you should celebrate it this way, that’s all very good. You can express your gratitude in many ways. But the basic ingredient is gratitude. The deep-felt gratitude. The deep-felt gratitude you have in your heart, you can express it in various ways. It doesn’t have to be the same for everyone. It can be highly individualistic. You can celebrate it one day in one way, another day in another way. You don’t have to conform to any patterns, but the basic thing is to be grateful! That is very important. Because He has walked into our lives. No matter how much we seek in, we cannot get Him. Advanced yogis have not understood him. Advanced yogis have understood many things but they haven’t understood Swami. And that is inscrutable! You cannot get an answer for that. Sinners can understand the Avatar when the Avatar chooses to reveal. Yogis cannot understand the Supreme Master unless He chooses to reveal. This is why we cannot get an answer. This is the way it is. Once you understand Him, once you come this far, the only thing is gratitude. Wake up in the morning, be grateful. Go through the motions in daily life, go to sleep in gratitude. Everything will be taken care of. Grace is there for the asking. This is the hound of heaven. Heaven will hound you, grace will hound you. That is His responsibility. That is His job! We are His responsibility, right! Then what more do you want!
TAT: Thank you. Could you please share a bhajan or mantra that resonates with Baba for you by singing or reciting it?
SW:I will sing a bhajan because I connect to Bhagawan as Nataraja, the “Dancing Shiva.” to the best of my ability. This bhajan is very special to me
Nataraja Nataraja, Narthana Sundara Nataraja
Shiva Raja, Shiva Raja,
Shiva Tandava priya, Shiva Raja
Nataraja Nataraja
Nataraja, Narthana Sundara Nataraja
Chidambaresha Nataraja,
Parthipurisha Sai Raja
Nataraja Nataraja,
Narthana Sundara Nataraja
Shiva Raja, Shiva Raja,
Shiva Tandava Priya, Shiva Raja
TAT: Thank you. It was beautiful!
SW: This is divine friendship. This is nothing but divine collaboration. Bhagawan has brought you here, I am able to see my soulmates. It’s beautiful. Thank you so much.
