Sabyasachi Rath: Mohanji, thank you for coming to the MCB US and initiating the process here. How do you like it?
Mohanji: I can sum up the Center in one word: stability. I believe many people sense it; they feel very stable here. Whether engaged in a program or simply seated in this space, they experience a profound sense of stability. In the outside world, stability is a rarity due to its inherent restlessness and chaotic energies. Here, what one truly perceives is stability.
Sabyasachi Rath: How do you view the role of the Center of Benevolence (MCB) in the US specifically? And what activities do you envision here?
Mohanji: As I mentioned earlier, the cornerstone for any society is stable individuals. If the people are stable, society becomes stable. Society is essentially a collective of people. Stability ensures mature decision-making, devoid of emotional impulsiveness. It brings about a balanced approach, and such decisions are beneficial for all, not just the decision-maker. It creates a harmonious environment where everyone is content, feeling equal, protected, nurtured, loved, and supported.
I emphasized this yesterday; when serving, the recipient should not feel diminished. We aim to establish this fabric in society, where everyone is equal, content, and supported. The Center, for us, will function as a source for this. When individuals come here, experience stability, and leave, they carry that stability into the world and contribute to the stability of America. That’s the intention I am setting.
People leaving here should not be hungry or power-hungry. If they acquire power, they should use it with kindness, not to conquer, capture, or inflict harm. Power, when wielded, should reflect humility and kindness, creating a better world. This place will imbue individuals with that strength. I have no doubt about it.
Sabyasachi Rath: Do you see people coming here staying for a day or a week?
Mohanji: Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m looking at. People should stay here; the more people stay here, the more they will start experiencing differences. This will be a universe by itself, with multiple faculties and facilities to enhance our lives. All my Centers are programmed like that. This is to enhance and stabilize you, so that whatever the situations may be outside of you, internally, you’re very stable. You’re very peaceful. You’re very loving and very kind.
And externally, we can’t control. We can’t control the world outside. But we are not influenced by the world outside so much that we become unstable. That’s why I’m creating this space. If a person has one day they can spend one day, if they have one week to spare, they can spend one week. And there’ll be programs, and there’ll be activities to deepen their stability factor. So, they can stay here as long as they like, one day, two days, three days, one week, one month, no problem.
We will also create silent zones, where they don’t have to interact with anybody. They don’t even have to have eye contact. They look within and they stay, and we will provide food there itself, and there’ll be toilet and bath facilities in the neighborhood, there’ll be pods for them to meditate and take rest. A few days of silence will give them a lot of strength.
We are the world of noises, and we become part of that noise, and we get lost in it. But here, when you go into deeper and deeper layers of silence, we have methods for it that will bring you back to the world of noises as silence, which is very powerful. When you’re unbound or unhindered by noises, you’re super strong. We know that no noise affects you, whether it is good, bad, or ugly. If it doesn’t affect you, then you’re super powerful, super strong.
So, those kinds of things, and plus our activities, like walking meditation, Kriya… We’ll roll out everything here. The Mai-Tri method will be there, which will help people to speed up the healing process. There’ll be processes, meditation retreats, 24/7 365-day retreats, which means people can check in anytime, they can go through the process, or they can sleep here, and they can participate the next day also. Everything will be comfortable, and the food will be vegan. As you see the board outside, this is a vegan sanctuary. No animal products will be entertained here. Even if people bring animal products, we’ll give it back to them. Clothes, food, everything will be cruelty-free.
Sabyasachi Rath: Will it be like an extension of the Empowered 5.0 program?
Mohanji: Empowered 5.0 series will be rolled out, plus deeper silence, where you can isolate yourself and experience the silence. We will guide them; we will supervise. And once they start digging deeper into their silence, that will be reflected as their own stability. More than other people, they will know that they are unaffected. Unaffected doesn’t mean they’re indifferent; they will be involved, but at the same time, involving and coming out like water on the lotus leaf. The water cannot drench them, sound cannot drench them, society and emotion cannot drench them or drown them, that makes them stable.
Sabyasachi Rath: Do you envision additional Centers around the country as well?
Mohanji: I don’t know about the country, but I’m seeing expansion here. I think this place will expand further. I don’t think there should be many Centers; that may not help the point. But this Center will expand much more. More people will come, more demand will come, more expansion will come, spontaneously organically, not that we plan it. So, I see a natural progression. Maybe there would be other Centers, but then that’s not in our vision right now. America has this Center, that’s quite sufficient, and this can expand to accommodate a larger number of people. People should come here for this place. Not like okay, I have nothing else to do. That will not work because that will be very superficial. They should come here and for here. They will be involved in the activity; they will feel deeper, more realistic.
Sabyasachi Rath: So, will you be having people here throughout the year?
Mohanji: Somebody will be staying here. There’ll be an administration team and there’ll be people who will be facility providers, facility maintainers, and stuff. Probably I’ll be back here in April next year. I think before that so many things would have happened.
Sabyasachi Rath: The next question is regarding physical versus virtual presence of a master. We see more people coming here when you are physically present versus when you’re not present. How do we attract the same number of people?
Mohanji: We don’t have to attract; the energy will attract. See, energy is unmistakable. Anybody who’s got a reasonable feel of energy will know that this place is good. My physical presence, of course, brings people, but my metaphysical presence will always be here. They will feel it, and they will know it. When they come here, they will know there is a Mohanji factor working here. The same is happening in Australia, in Canada, in South Africa. People feel me when they come; there is a touch of Mohanji here, this energy, and they connect. When they think, they remember, and when they connect, that activates in them further.
Sabyasachi Rath: Do you anticipate also having animals?
Mohanji: We have no segregation between any life forms. Our love is beyond species; we respect every life. We don’t harm anybody, hurt anybody, kill anybody, any being, anything, every being is respected. This place will have many more beings. I don’t know when it will all happen because it has to evolve, and we need to have the capacity to take care of them. Inviting them here without taking care of them is injustice. When we invite them, we should also take care of them. When we have that capacity, we will have animals. Even here we have food kept for birds; if they are hungry, they can come and eat. So, we provide for them even now, but in an organized way, we can have them later.
“Our love is beyond species we respect every life”
Sabyasachi Rath: What is the root of the ownership towards Guru?
Mohanji: It’s habitual, but it’s illusional, nobody can own anybody, especially a Guru. The Guru is a principle; you can hold on to the principle but not the person. The person is only a representation of the principle. So, if you hold on to a person, that simply means that you don’t understand Guru Tattva, Guru principle. The principle called Guru also sits in you. So, this Guru activates that Guru, the external master activates that master in you, and you also start glowing the light of the Guru or Guru ship. So, the Guru is not a person; it’s a principle. And when you’re connected to a person and holding on to one person, that’s an illusion, a huge expression of insecurity. But initially, it’s okay. Because you need to focus on somebody or something strong enough, like Hanumanji focused on Ram long enough, where he became one with Him. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu focused on Krishna long enough, where Chaitanya Mahaprabhu merged with Krishna. So, this is all truth. But that connection is not with ownership.
That connection is with awareness. We are connecting to something knowing fully well, this is walking consciousness, and established in consciousness. So, when you connect to something with full awareness that this is consciousness walking, and if I focus myself, park my mind there, I will also become that, this is the right method of connection. Because you have a big-time clarity, otherwise, you’re looking at a man and thinking, this is a man I like and I spend time with him, hold on to him when he dies, what would you do, then you’re in the inner sphere of illusion. So, I always guide people to the principle, I represent a principle, if that suits you stay with me. If that doesn’t suit you, go away, I have no problem. But if you’re staying with me, it is not for the physical form because one will die and will go away.
It should be for the sake of connection to the consciousness because this is also a gateway. There are many gateways to heaven, heaven means consciousness. This MCB is also one portal, one gateway. So, this place and the person who’s behind this space will definitely provide, the doors are open for all. People can come in, and they can experience, and they can evolve. Ownership is the highest illusion human beings keep in this life; we own nothing. Even this land here. Before us, there were people owning it. Many people lived here, owned here, walked here. And after our life, there’ll be many people coming, and maybe experiencing the things which we are starting now. The next generation, and the coming generation, we don’t know who’s going to come, who will be living here, who will be running here, we don’t know. But the trends we set, that will survive time; people won’t survive time; people will go.
Sabyasachi Rath: We have heard you say that the physical presence of a Guru burns your karma in the causal layer. Does the virtual presence also do that when you connect to the virtual presence?
Mohanji: It will do that provided your connection is stable. Physical presence does that more because a Guru is not operating in tamas, which is inertia laziness, nor is he operating with rajas, action with expectation. He operates in satwa and beyond turiya. So, what happens when a person is connected to it? He has no option to move in tamas, he gets kicked. He has no option to move in rajas, because with expectation he also gets kicked out. He is asked to move in action without expectation, selfless action. Right? If you go further and further in selfless action, immense purification happens. Because if you’re operating without expectation of the result of action, you’re already a sanyasi means you are a renunciate, that’s what Krishna said. The same thing happens when you are with a Guru. You have no option to be lazy, you have no option to delay things. See, delaying and laziness, all these are tamas. So, then rajas is action with expectation, even though you may expect some kind of pat on the back and the Guru says nonsense, you can do better. So, that tilts you, shakes you, jerks you, and then you take the next step. So, if you are in the presence of a master, he will never permit you knowingly or unknowingly into these two levels, you are to operate from the level of action without expectation, pure action. When you operate in pure action, purification happens to you. And when you are purified further and further, the next level is that you are a witness to the purification. Turiya is a state of a complete witness, then from that state, you are in realization, and from realization to becoming one with the universe and total dissolution. So, this process becomes fast when you are with a Guru. But you can’t stay with a Guru long. Because your natural patterns always pull you back. Never underestimate natural, native patterns. Patterns are a mixture of desires, inclinations, tendencies, fears, phobias, various factors all mixed together, like a cocktail. And that holds you, that runs your show. Along with the ownership, possessiveness, all these things. And when you have that, even 5% you will tend to move away from the master, or the master kicks you out. Are you staying with me so long and you’re not learned, so bye, bye, go away. It’s not a sadistic pleasure or anything, it’s that all activity has no value.
For example, if you’re staying and you’re stagnating, then the relationship with your master has no value. What has value? When you’re growing, evolving, dissolving, it has value. Master will not agree that you can be lazy in his presence. Sometimes the Master may ignore you, okay, you’ll be lazy, is this what you want? Okay, sleep. But it’s not always the case. So, either you will go away, or the master will throw you out, because you have become complacent, you have become lazy, you’re not growing, then there’s no point. That awakening has to happen, that, look here this is the golden chance, this is my chance which I wanted since lifetimes to be with the master, to evolve to the highest, and that value is maintained, that presence of the master will do wonders. You know that value, that fire should be maintained. You should feel it. And in most cases the fire dampens when familiarity increases. You don’t see the metaphysical side, right? Until other people tell you, hey look here, Mohanji was here a moment and was with me there, when somebody tells you, you realize, oh that means he’s multi-dimensional. You understand this through testimonials. Living with the Master is dangerous, because you see the obvious, you see only the physical part, eating, drinking, sleeping, going to the toilet, taking bath, but this part is nothing compared to what his operating level is. For that, other people’s testimonials you should constantly read. So, that you realize okay, this is valuable, this time is valuable, presence is valuable. Operating level is not what I think, or what I can perceive, then the connection becomes more, and more valuable, then they will not leave. Otherwise, they will leave because if they become very familiar, all familiarity breeds separation. Familiarity always pushes people away or makes them indifferent. Many people came to see Jesus. 12 people stayed with him, 13th one betrayed. Many people came to see Buddha, attended sermons, 5 people stayed. Not everybody can see the Master. Not everybody can maintain the value of the master in their life. Not everybody can do that. That’s a million-dollar thing. You know that you have to have that kind of determination, that kind of stability, and you need to constantly refresh yourself with the idea that this is very important for me. That lifetimes I have taken to reach here, and lifetimes it will take to reach here if I leave him. So that awareness is very important.
“When you operate in pure action, purification happens to you”
Sabyasachi Rath: In addition to internal patterns there are also external environments, which also pull one away from a master?
Mohanji: External environment does not touch you, if you’re not entertaining your patterns. If your purpose is very high. What is Mohanji, a particular state, state in consciousness, right? Let’s say a state of stillness, or whatever state in consciousness, I want to achieve that, that’s why I’m connected to Mohanji. If you constantly connect to that, you will, at least, achieve the state which I’m in. That means you will merge with me, or my consciousness, at least you will get that. Now, if you don’t understand that, then the rest is pattern, external, internal, everything is pattern. So, if you’re not clear why you’re with Mohanji, then you will be vulnerable to all kinds of patterns. Even drinking coffee is a pattern, it may be very mild from an external angle, but it is also a pattern. Any desire is a pattern. Inclinations and fears are patterns. But all those patterns have no value when you know, okay, this is Mohanji. This is my purpose. My connection with him is to be him, to be there. What is the best prayer you can ask Baba, or any master? Let me be like you, or let me be in your frequency. Let me be, or bless me to be, in your frequency. That’s the best prayer, because that’s the best thing they can give you. Not like a car or a bicycle, or those kinds of things. People ask for very small things, solutions for daily life. That’s not a masters’ job. They may give it, but that’s not what they’re here for, to get you a parking space. Those kinds of things may happen, because they are free energy, and free energy opens the doors. But the ultimate is that what stature they are in, you have the right to be in that stature, provided you’re connected, and consciously focused with awareness. Hanuman did that. He came to Ram not knowing who he was, but later, when he came to know who Ram is, he stayed put, he didn’t shake, he didn’t go anywhere. Even when Sita Mata gave him a diamond necklace, he broke open each diamond to see if there was Ram in it. When he couldn’t see Ram, he threw away diamonds. So, nothing else matters except my Guru, then you will definitely rise in stature to that level in this life. One life is enough. You don’t need many lives. Because your purpose is very clear. Focus is clear, then why not? You have to reach there.
Sabyasachi Rath: In the USA, let’s say we have 1000 followers of Mohanji, how to maintain unity, and purpose because there’ll be differences?
Mohanji: That’s not your job, your job is to maintain consistency here. You know what you need, don’t look outside, look inside, how best we can do when people come here. Take care of them with humility, with love, and no pretension. Don’t pretend anything anytime. Don’t pretend at all. Because ours is a path of purity. When you talk about purity, we should be natural. If you’re not natural, if you are pretending, that will reflect in your behavior. So, always be pure, always be natural, and always be kind. If a word or an expression is unkind, don’t use it. And don’t argue ever, no shouting in this place. You know, no shouting, no screaming, no argument in this place, because the vibration is subtle, keep it subtle. Hundreds and thousands of people will come. You know thousands of people out there who like Mohanji and hundreds and thousands of people getting transformed by Mohanji Center. The difference will be huge, much more than you can envisage. We are not chasing people; we are not asking people to come. We are not asking people for any favor. We don’t have to do that because we are powerful. This is abundance. Datta tradition is abundance. Money will come, support will come, people will come, transformation will happen. Changes will happen and then people will come, more people will come.
Sabyasachi Rath: So, would we expect you to also visit other cities, let’s say Baltimore in Maryland?
Mohanji: I don’t have to. One place is enough. By going to many places, it will not work. If I’m in one place people will come, and the energy I invest in this place will be usable for generations to come. If I scatter my energy, which I’ve done all my life, all these years, now I can invest that energy in one place. We saw the Homa here, very, very powerful, extraordinary. It’s like a hundred priests doing the Homa, but here with just two people that kind of power is created. If you have focus, it’s like a lens against the sun, you focus the lens strong enough, it burns the grass. That same effect we created here in this Homa. The activity that we do, if the intention is clear and pure, if it is consistent, it will burn grass, and it will burn tons of stuff. Not material but metaphysically, like a lot of people became lighter, some others felt dizzy. That is because things are leaving them, some of them came and told us that it’s like a huge transformation, like a weight is lifted from their chest. This is because of the power of our intention. And if a hundred priests sit and do it, it will not have that effect. That is why I would rather invest my energy in one place. It will be more beneficial for the future. This will expand, this base will increase, and more and more people will come around. There’ll be more people, our people will be buying land around, they’ll be coming, and they’ll be contributing and supporting, and they will be supported, nurtured, and benefited. So, that this area will develop, the Mohanji world will become here, there will be a Mohanji universe here. So, why should we go to different places? There are, for example, I would like to go to Texas, because they have given me a day, I have to honor it. When people respect me, I respect them much more. When people honor me, I honor them, this is part of our tradition, you cannot avoid it. When people love you, you should give them more. Like if you observe, when people ask me like, some job they do, they ask me $10, I always give them $50. I don’t pay just that amount, I give them a little bit more like a tip. In that way they are happy and content, and I am content. When you share what you have, not that I’m very rich, I don’t keep much money in my pocket, but when you are constantly looking at how to make other people happy, automatically, you’re happy. When you’re only looking at what is my happiness and it doesn’t matter what others feel, then we will never be happy. So, the secret of happiness is in keeping everybody happy so that you will feel rich, happy, and stable.
Sabyasachi Rath: Could you speak about drug addictions?
Mohanji: For drug addiction, the cause is normally abandonment. When people feel abandoned, unwanted, they will seek solace. One solace they look for is the destruction of their mind state, like awareness. So, they use dangerous tricks because you can’t easily break free from it. What we aim for is full consciousness, where we don’t need external help; we are complete by ourselves. I am emphasizing that no external factor is important. We are self-sufficient, confident, leading complete lives, and the more you connect with yourself, the higher your awareness.
Fighting drugs won’t make them disappear; you’ll only lose the battle. By giving love, companionship, and connecting with children from an early age—counseling, understanding their interests, nurturing them, guiding them on their unique paths—they’ll likely deny drugs 80 out of 100 times. Loneliness is a key factor; children, devoid of communication with parents or teachers, gravitate towards lonely individuals who introduce destructive ideas.
To address this, we must start by loving, nurturing, and being available for children, respecting their individuality. Don’t disrupt their natural uniqueness; if someone wants to be an artist, don’t push them into a different field. Encourage, reward, recognize, and accept them to reduce the problem of drug addiction.
Sabyasachi Rath: Another important topic that we wanted you to touch upon is heavy guns and exposure to violence.
Mohanji: It should be banned by law. If you want peace in the country, you should ban weapons. Otherwise, you can talk about this all your life, but it’s an illusion. You are actually talking to the wall. There should be no weapons available for people of any category except law enforcement, and law enforcement should not use weapons. They should use guidance, channeling, and counseling and prevent it before it starts. Prevention is always better than cure.
Sabyasachi Rath: The exposure to violence in the media is constantly consuming.
Mohanji: That should be given. If a person develops purpose, they will not be biased; they will not be affected by any other thing. Because they are happy with their job. For me, what is motivating me is the fact that I love my job. I love my work. I’m traveling and I’m not in one place. And it’s tedious. I’m not enjoying all these moments, but I’m happy because I’m happy with my work. I’m transforming people. That’s exactly what I wanted to do. I’m doing it and that motivates me. Even if somebody gives me some nice 20-year-old alcohol, I will not be interested. That’s because my purpose is clear. I’m walking my path, whether people walk with me or not, I’m still walking.
People have changed, understood, misunderstood, still, I’m walking. All you can do in life is to keep walking. Don’t look at people; are they following me? Are they ahead of me? Are they on my side? This all is not in our control. Sometimes, I’m very categorical to people. That is because if they don’t break that tamasic lock, they can’t move forward. They put themselves into a lock saying that now there is no life, or this is impossible, I can’t grow further. You have to break it. After that, there is freedom. Life is like that. Nobody did this to me; I had to do it myself. I keep walking, and I keep moving. And, like I said in that speech at the Parliament of World Religions that became viral, I can guarantee none of my people will resort to violence. I said, all the spiritual heads, all the religious heads should take responsibility and make sure those who are following them should never resort to violence. If that happens, there’ll be no war in the world. I said I can guarantee those who are following me will not resort to violence. This is my responsibility, my guarantee. Those who are really following me, I can guarantee this, but can you? I asked that question. I will never accept violence in thoughts, words, and action in my community. Of course, anyone can choose to leave me; that is a different story. But while they are with me, there is no way this can happen.
Sabyasachi Rath: What about mental health issues?
Mohanji: When you develop your purpose, you’re already mentally strong. When you know what you want to do, what you have to achieve, or which stature you’re looking at in this life, you will be mentally strong. Even if you fall, you will get up because falling is part of destiny. Getting this is part of willpower. So, falling you can’t control. You may fall in life many times. I’ve fallen many times. But getting up is our determination, our willpower, which you have to cultivate because that will happen when you know where you’re going. I had big-time clarity; raising awareness was my only aim. Even now. And before also, raising awareness is what I’m doing now. And any platform which I have created, it’s all to raise awareness. So, my purpose is very clear; I have clarity, my mission has clarity. And the people who are with me, I take care of them when they are with me. If they leave me, I don’t really worry because everybody cannot agree on everything. So, if they leave, I respect them. They leave, and I continue my journey. Many people who left have come back because that is all human nature. Sometimes they don’t agree and they leave, but then later they realize that it was a foolish decision or an emotional decision, and they decide to come back. We accept them. No permanent enmity at any time.
Sabyasachi Rath: Can you speak about pornography? It is a big addiction in the world.
Mohanji: Pornography is a sign of the times, first of all, the idea that sexuality is taboo. It is not; it’s part of instinct: food, water, sleep, sex, these are all instinctual things. And all beings have it. This is the only way for species to continue. We call sex a sin, and we see sexuality as something obscene. And we try to keep them under the covers like a taboo. What happens then? The mind will be stuck with that thing. Whenever something is denied to people, that’s the only thing that will be in their mind. Whenever you say: “No, you can’t do this, this is prohibited,” automatically, that’s the only thing they think about. This is one aspect. Secondly, sex is not sin. It’s a necessity; it’s an inevitability; otherwise, species will not continue.
Third point, when sex is in the mind of people, and when they cannot express it in real life, they go for something virtual. The net gave them that platform; nobody can stop it. And when more and more people are satisfied virtually, it affects relationships. Because you don’t need a woman or a man; you’re in a world of fantasy. When you’re in a world of fantasy, then automatically you are being unreal. There’s no reality there. Plus, some faculty within you dies. For example, a good relationship dies because you are in a fantasy world, and you are enjoying it. So, what you would have normally connected with like a good relationship has no value because you have a virtual relationship. The more you are in the virtual world, the real world dies.
All my childhood, I didn’t have a connection to this kind of world. So, I had more reality; I was more into the ground, I could feel the earth, feel the flowers, feel the gardens, and experience nature. Today we don’t have that; nature is all on-screen. And our communication is mostly with the screen. We have disconnected from ourselves. This is what is causing all the psychosomatic diseases. And more will happen that way.
Everything is a sign of time. And they will find new ways to attract people. Like any business. If there is a demand, there is a supply. Now there is a demand because people don’t have time. They are all chasing something all the time, and they will always feel incomplete. Because there’s no satisfaction or conclusion, no completion. So, they will feel less or incomplete, and they will search for something to fill them up. This is what’s happening.
First of all, sex is not a sin. It’s part of our system. It’s part of our instinct, and it should be respected. I’m coming from a country where sexuality is respected. Kama Sutra is a culture of respect. A very important part of our existence, such as sexuality, is to be respected. When you respect it, you will not misuse it. Why do we respect all the rivers? Because when you respect, you will nurture the rivers like the mother. We respect mountains, so we don’t disturb them or destroy them. A culture of respect is very important. Towards us, we should have self-respect, we should respect our instincts. Two people wanting to have sex, it is only natural, this is how our system is created. Every animal, every bird has that, but only at a particular time. They don’t keep sex in mind. They keep sex with the body. At a particular time, they have the particular inclination to have sex, and then the offspring come.
Sabyasachi Rath: Can you touch upon collaboration with other spiritual teachers in the country?
Mohanji: We can have any collaboration provided we don’t dilute our mission. We can have any association, any collaboration, but our basic structure, our basic mission cannot be diluted. Because if it’s diluted, how much we don’t know, then it will become completely wasted. We have to keep our Raja Yoga path, our path of liberation intact, and with that, we can work with anybody for the welfare of the country. I always believe that wherever and whatever I do, it will have benefits for that country. That is my intention. The people here, the system here, everybody should benefit; they should receive some benefit. Our aim is to enhance the life of people, not physically but metaphysically mostly. Physically means money; I can’t give money to people; we don’t have that kind of money. But metaphysically for sure. And various methods and systems we have made to stabilize the society, and that’s my contribution to the country.
There are various paths; ours is strictly Raja Yoga path: the path of liberation, the path of avadhootas. There are Bhakti yoga paths, there are Jnana yoga paths, there are Karma yoga paths; all these are good, people with orientation of that kind connect to that path. And they all have value; we can associate with everybody, but we can’t marry anybody. We can have companionship, but we cannot compromise our basic texture.
Sabyasachi Rath: Thank you, Mohanji.
